Best Vehicle Candidates For WVO

[ElktonJohn]

As a super-newbie I think my biggest question is...and I've looked all over for the reference material, no joy...what used vehicle should one buy if they want to convert said vehicle from diesel to wvo. Let me re-define that by class...for a passenger car, a light truck, a heavy duty pick-up...what do you regard as a good choice for modification to a heated wvo system and what would constitute a bad choice? Any and all information/opinions welcome or a point towards a source of prior postings or other sites also very very welcome. Any help would be ...helpfull.

[thtguy]

best sedan, pre '86 300 series D or SD Benz

best light truck, VW caddy

best heavy duty PU, i am partial to Ford, but would say hands down pre '96 dodge cummins

bad choices- anything with a warranty that can be voided :rolleyes:
lucas IP's, Cummins with a VP44 (IP weak no matter the fuel) there are some more.

[ElktonJohn]

Thanks Jeff...Question...what is a VW Caddy and what is an IP? Injection Pump? Thanks a bunch...J

[ElktonJohn]

also Jeff...was your Rabbit a good choice? I've been looking for one but know zero about VW, although they seem a good option from what I've read so far.

[thtguy]

a caddy, is what the rabbit pickup was called everywhere but the US, most people still call them caddys though.

I have owned VW's since I was 15, they are a very inexpensive car to own, esspecially if you do all the work yourself. just make sure you get one with a good body shell, esspecially floorboards. you can get a rebuilt motor for less than $2000. try that with a benz, just don't expect alot of space or comfort. overall I like VW's but I am trying to dive into the benz world.

[ElktonJohn]

Thanks Jeff, I am looking for a Mercedes to start with but since I am an old timey GM muscle car guy I know I'm out of my environment in a big way. I have a few metric wrenches tho'...and parts is parts. Ugh, I'm so screwed. Thanks again bud, EJ

[Greg]

If parts is parts... a car guy is a car guy. Go forth and do it. I once heard someone say that a Mercedes sedan is just a 1964 chevy taken to perfection. Nothing exotic, just very well built.
From what I have seen of the market you can buy a eary 80's Mercedes for a lot less than a VW of the same year. Which car would you rather drive ?

[diesel$coffee]

jeff

why pre 96 cummins and not 12V from 94 - 98.5??

[DieselBurps]

jeff

why pre 96 cummins and not 12V from 94 - 98.5??
Yeah - exactly. Out of those, the '98 quad-cab, 12V models are the hot ticket. The rest are still excellent. '93 has a different IP - and the parts for bombing it aren't as readily available. '98.5+ went to the 24V and yet another IP/lift pump.

[agapemom]

best sedan, pre '86 300 series D or SD Benz


Hello, I have the same question as Elkton John. We are looking for a sedan as we have 3 kids to haul around.

May I ask why pre'86 and what is the difference between a D and an SD?

I found an '86 300 SDL Turbo on EBay. What does the "L" mean?

I assume that a Turbo wouldn't be the best choice for conversion?

Sorry for all of the questions. Appreciate everyone's knowledge and helpfulness here!

[dougk]

May I ask why pre'86 and what is the difference between a D and an SD?
A pre 1986 Benz is made like a tank. The engines have been known to go for a long time. I believe a '84 and older benz still have the castiron heads. The aluminum heads aren't as good enigines.

I found an '86 300 SDL Turbo on EBay. What does the "L" mean?
I dont know what the L stands for but the car you are looking at is probably not the one you should have. It is a smaller sedan. I would look for a nice Mercedes 300d or sd. The sds are the larger sedans. There isnt a ton of room in the back seat but tons of trunk space.

I assume that a Turbo wouldn't be the best choice for conversion?
I haven't heard of Turbo having any problems.

Good Luck
DK

[agapemom]

Thanks Dougk!

[DieselBurps]

I found an '86 300 SDL Turbo on EBay. What does the "L" mean?
I dont know what the L stands for but the car you are looking at is probably not the one you should have. It is a smaller sedan. I would look for a nice Mercedes 300d or sd. The sds are the larger sedans. There isnt a ton of room in the back seat but tons of trunk space.
The SD's are pretty big in the back - large enough for adults. The SDL is an extended length SD. I think the car was 10" longer than the SD.

I assume that a Turbo wouldn't be the best choice for conversion?
I haven't heard of Turbo having any problems.
The turbo is the only one to get! 40% more power and no appreciable downside. Diesels LOVE turbos - and it saves you from pedaling to accelerate!

[cgoodwin]

"The SD's are pretty big in the back - large enough for adults. The SDL is an extended length SD. I think the car was 10" longer than the SD."


Nope, only 4" longer and this length is in the floor of the rear passenger area, if you look at the rear doors on the two vehicles (SD & SDL) you will notice that the rear upper corner of the window on an SD is curved as the door drops, on the SDL the window is square as the door in longer front to back. The SDL also came stock as a pretty loaded model.

Chris

[DieselBurps]

"The SD's are pretty big in the back - large enough for adults. The SDL is an extended length SD. I think the car was 10" longer than the SD."

Nope, only 4" longer and this length is in the floor of the rear passenger area, if you look at the rear doors on the two vehicles (SD & SDL) you will notice that the rear upper corner of the window on an SD is curved as the door drops, on the SDL the window is square as the door in longer front to back. The SDL also came stock as a pretty loaded model.

Chris
My bad - I knew it was longer, but was unsure about the dimensions. The SD was longer than the D - but again, I'm not sure how much. Chris - was that extra 4" on the SDL all in the back seat? For perspective - how comfortable are you in the back of an SD vs in the front? (Serious question here - I'm not talking about any Jeep-Cherokee-conversion-coercion.) At 6', I found it roomy enough for long distance travel. It might put things into perspective for agapemom. For the record, both were pretty loaded - they are the beginnings of the "S" class, after all!

[cgoodwin]

My comfort in the back depends on how far the front seat is put back. I am 6'4" and my Father-in-law is 6'7". I am comfortable in the back as long as the front seat is not put all the way back, he is comfortable in the front but not in the back if I am the one in front! The rear seat on my car has a recline feature which slides the seat base forward ajustably 4" as the back tilts. This also changes the leg room in the back. The SDL is a very comfortable car to say the least. Mine (SEL gas) is black on black leather, AMG wheels and suspension with the self leveling rear suspension, air bag, ABS, limited slip diff, power everything and 320 HP, 334 ft/lb , 14.8 1/4 mile, 6.8 sec 0-60. They are one of the safest cars ever built and very solid. There is a reason they were the favorite sedan of the Mafia, Yakuza, and politicians the world over.

Bad part about my car is that it is gas and gets 18mpg unless I drive then it goes down as the accelerator is pressed. It lives in the back of my shop with cotton sheets over it until I need to pick up people at the airport or go out to a nice dinner. I drive my 1985 VW Vanagon 1.9NA FRYBRID!

[thtguy]

sorry everyone for saying pre96 I couldn't remember when the 24v came out.

how about this... any 12v cummins is a good choice

86 is a very ifie year just for the fact that it was the first year of a new motor. the 603 from 86 to some time in the 90s is a great motor just if you compare its robustness to the 617 then it is kinda mediocre. I mean geez i just bought an 87 which just had a head job and it only had 330K miles.

[ElktonJohn]

So far everyone likes the MB '86 and prior D... SD, SDL for size and engine, pre '84 has cast heads. VW fine but smaller, also perhaps less to maintain one of these then a Benz.
For light truck a VW " Caddy ". Heavy truck a pre-'96 Cummins (Dodge). I've been looking at listings on Ebay and the classifieds and have to wonder about Saab and Volvo as possible options for passenger vehicles, Ford and Chevy trucks good options in the truck world...any thoughts? Thanks to everyone for all the info and Hi Lea...

[thtguy]

So far everyone likes the MB '86 and prior D... SD, SDL for size and engine, pre '84 has cast heads. VW fine but smaller, also perhaps less to maintain one of these then a Benz.
For light truck a VW " Caddy ". Heavy truck a pre-'96 Cummins (Dodge). I've been looking at listings on Ebay and the classifieds and have to wonder about Saab and Volvo as possible options for passenger vehicles, Ford and Chevy trucks good options in the truck world...any thoughts? Thanks to everyone for all the info and Hi Lea...

Pre 86 had cast iron heads, 86 on had alloy

as i was corrected pre 98.5 cummins.

I have a 85 6.9 ford great truck, I like it.
when i get a newer truck it will be a 99-2003 7.3 powerstroke ford. I am a little partial... don't even ask what i think of GM. ok so really they are decent too, just watch that PMD

[VeggieRanger]

On the GM 6.5TD engines, I was finally scared off by the PMD and the Stanadyne pump. If you blow one of those, my IP rebuilder charges $1085 to swap it out. If you go to the dealer, expect to pay $2k for pump and R&R. He says relocating the PMD helps but the electronics are still problematic. He cringes every time a rebuilt Stanadyne goes out the door with a one-year warranty!

Anyway, I'm leaning toward an older 6.2L Suburban. Any comments on this drivetrain? On Veggie? I know there are some folks who've converted them...
Both my mechanic and pump rebuilder say this is a cheaper vehicle to maintain. Both say I should go with the 12v Cummins or a Powerstroke but I need an SUV for the kids! (Excursion is not an option yet... too much deneiro to justify it when there are so many other affordable options)

VR

[ElktonJohn]

Thanks Jeff...BTW, I'm over in Elkton -do ya' think- , anyone local you know have anything a new-to-the-world-of-WVO guy might be interested as his first vehicle...preferably something you'd buy if you needed a test-bed vehicle with real potential but not too spendy?

[ElktonJohn]

Man, I've been into cars and trucks since I was 16 but I've never come across so many abbreviations and acronyms for auto related stuff that went so far over my head. A PMD is a pump mounted driver, so Google says...gawd knows what it actually means but ok, I assume it's for the newer GM vehicles, like 1999-2004 as opposed to the older models...mid 80's. I'd also be curious about the GM trannys. A friend of mine once put a Detroit 453? inside a '76 3/4 ton GMC and mated it to a Turbo 400 and it lasted even with his full gravel loads. Of course the front end got stuck in gravel, which was annoying and ironic but the trans held up...did they run that 400 in the 80's behind the 6.2? Thanks for the info.

[perry]

I think all the 3/4 ton trucks and Suburbans got the tough THM400, but the 1/2 ton version had the weak TH700. In my long hair days, I had a 72 Olds w/a THM400 and that thing was bulletproof for the punishment it received, combined with the 3.08 rear end, it was humming on the highway, probably why I only averaged 7mpg...

Which brings me to the downside of the 400.... is that you don't get OD. If you want to mechanical simplicity of the 6.2, get the 3/4ton 91 Suburban. Thats when they introduced the 4L80 tranny, which was basically the OD version of the 400, and it was available with the 3/4ton 6.2's. I love the retro looks of that bodystyle (i had an 89), and I think it was bigger inside than the next generation, but it had pretty shoddy build quality and paint, which was par for GM of that decade.

My 99 has been reliable and the 4l80 trans does great, even when towing my 7000lb trailer up the mountain passes. Build quality was surprisingly good, but based on my experience of my 89, I got the extended warranty when I bought the Suburban new...and unless I need to make a claim in the next 5 months, I will have wasted $1400.

As for MB's, I like the power and smoothness of the 86 and later 6 cylinder diesels but I have to keep my eye on the temp gauge when driving my 87 as overheating is what the aluminum heads don't like.

[ElktonJohn]

Hey Perry:
I'll remember to look for the 4L80 as I look through GM possibles, especially in '91's...never heard of it before and thanks for turning me onto it...and as for long hair, well, I have a 71 Cutlass S up on ramps waiting for a new TH 350 as the last one finally lost reverse after all these years. NOT a Diesel but she's fun as hell to drive. Thanks, EJ
And for anyone reading please add you info and comments on this topic, more then just me is curious, are curious? Bad diction but you know what I mean. Muchas Gracias from the hills of Virginny where the men are men and the sheep are nervous. :eek:

[jbattenhouse]

I will add that the VW TDI, pre 2005, is a good choice for a WVO conversion. I have a 1997 that I am converting and I know someone with a '96 Passat TDI with 90k on his conversion. DI engines, due to the much higher injection pressures and associated parts, are less forgiving than IDI engines, but with appropriate attention to detail they work just fine. Check out this site for some design features of an engine DESIGNED to run VO.

http://www.elsbett.com/

A true pioneer for using VO for fuel.

Also, the VW Caddy is a very small truck, smaller even than what most people think of compact pickups. There were diesel examples of small trucks built by the major manufacturers in the mid '80's, but they are rarer than a looped return in a Frybrid conversion.

[Tom Yaz]

Im looking now at a 1977 300TD (or is it 300DT?) Turbo diesel. Will Chris's
kit work with a MB that old? :cool:

[asnowsquall]

300DT is the sedan and 300TD is the wagon (think the T is touring)

[thtguy]

hey john I have a rabbit that is already converted for sale, it isn't pretty but with the extra engine and trans it is a tinkerers car.

there was an 83 SD fairly close to staunton but i think it may have been sold.

what exactly are you looking for, sounds like you want something big.

[ElktonJohn]

Hey Jeff...I am curious about the '83 SD, was it listed in the DNR or the News Leader?? Maybe I missed it. Also curious about the Wabbit...you're right about me looking for something bigger but I'd be interested to see what you're asking on the VW anyway 'cuz either way I go, big or small, I need to get going on it pretty soon. If it's ok with you I can try emailing you...not sure I am able to do it thru' this site and don't want to bother your inbox...or you can shoot me a line at Elktonjohn@adelphia.net either way I'd be happy to make contact with a local veg-head. Thanks, John

[Tom Yaz]

Whats the story with them? Can the later model (2000 Up) be used?

[ElktonJohn]

I hope someone with more experience comes along, but until then, what I have been given to understand is that the newer ( I assume 2000 + but not positive ) TDI's are touchy. The issue seems to revolve around the oil quality at the injector nozzle...viscosity/temp of the oil, the particulate size and water content all seem to pose problems with the high pressure spray and getting the correct spray pattern. Once the pattern gets funky then there are issues regarding deposit build-up and such. Again I am not experienced enough to say anything with surety, and it appears that others have had success with their TDI's...I am only passing on the concerns I've read and the long and short is just make sure your oil is good, well filtered and at the proper temp at the business end of the fuel line...and then have a nice day. I always wonder about adjusting the timing as I consider getting my first bean-burner. Any thoughts anyone???

[jbattenhouse]

I have a TDI and am converting it, so I have read up on all the possible issues as well. Having clean, hot oil is the key to ANY conversion, but with the direct injection engines it is even more critical. The injector tips are subjected to the combustion chamber heat and pressure so insufficiently heated oil can cause deposits to form on the injector tips, referred to as coking. Combustion chamber deposits are also likely. In indirect injection diesels, the injector tips are not actually in the "main" combustion chamber but are in a prechamber, where the initial combustion starts. The heat and pressure are not as severe in the prechamber, so the chances of coking are less, although not zero. The injection pressures are also much less in the older IDI engines, making the spray pattern less of an issue. That being said, there are examples of TDIs in Europe running for 200k on SVO, so it can obviously be made to work. I know a gentleman with a 96 VW Passat that has 90k on his conversion. He does run blends in his car so this helps by not having to have as much heat in the oil. TDIs can be done but care must be taken to have the system working properly and heating the oil enough.

[DieselBurps]

I have a TDI and converted it 8500 miles ago with a home made setup. It was my second conversion - I learned a lot from this forum and from the first (greasel) one. I made sure I had gauges in the proper places, filters as well and a fuel pump as well as a fuel return. The car still starts quickly and easily after all of this time and runs well. I would recommend that for your first conversion you buy a good kit and install it yourself - with help if needed. You'll want to be VERY familiar with your fuel system so you can diagnose and repair any problems that occur. It's not difficult - and well worth the time.

My setup has 2 flaws left to fix - one is that the WVO can get too hot. In summer traffic situations, I've seen the WVO hit 190+ *F. By then, I've usually switched back to diesel - too hot is bad. I'll be installing an oil temperature regulator/cooler set to 170 *F to keep the fuel temps where I want them. The other flaw is the lack of a check valve. When my filter starts clogging and my fuel needs are high (accelerating uphill...), my return fuel pressure drops to nothing - then the VW IP starts pulling WVO from my return line. Eventually it will suck all of the WVO out of the return fuel line and pull in some air. I then get to find a place to coast the car to so I can swap the filter. A check valve should just cut my power and give me a chance to switch to diesel before stalling. Both problems are waiting on parts - but should be taken care of soon.

[mm0015]

A PMD is a pump mounted driver, so Google says...gawd knows what it actually means but ok, ...

:D I suppose that could mean the driver's seat is mounted directly to the pump. Well.... I suppose I can see why that might leead to problems!

:rolleyes:

[Bio Rabbit]

Hey there folks. I am wondering if any one know what is an appropriate price to pay or sell a Caddy for. I have a friend who has a 1982 Caddy who is thinking about selling, and I am looking to purchase one. It has 100k, excellent maintanence record, in good condition. He is asking $5k. Is that too high? It seems high. but I can't get the blue book value it on-line so it is hard to say!


Thanks!

E

[ElktonJohn]

Problems MM? I like being on top of it all :o
Here's a usefull link from Dieselburps for the other newbies like me who wonder which car to buy when going to grease. http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1391
I'm still wondering if anybody has had any success with vehicles other then Ford Chevy Dodge, MB, VW...anyone done anything with Volvo or Saab or are they just junk? Inquiring minds want to know.

[jbattenhouse]

Bio-Rabbit:

The Caddy price seems a bit high but I have seen them go for higher. Unfortunately, they are rather hard to find and even harder to find in good condition. Not only that, they give someone the utility of a light duty pickup while retaining great mpgs. With fuel expected to go back up, it is a seller's market right now. I would love to have a good condition diesel Caddy but I would not spend 5k for it.

[Bio Rabbit]

Thanks for the good information. I had a sense that this was what you might tell me. It is hard becuase I need a vehicle asap for running veggie oil or bio diesel...and this one is in great shape for its year etc. hummm. decisions!

Hey do you the cheapest way to put a converter into a truck like that to run on straight veggie oil? and would it be worth it? What would it run me?!?

thanks!

[thtguy]

a pump mounted driver converts 12 volt to 48 volt to be used to drive the electronic injectors or something like that.

[thtguy]

Caddy's are always a little pricey cuz they are hard to find. if it is in excellent shape, it will go for a good bit. caddy's have two values, what it really is worth, and what the market drives it to. really it is all about how much it is worth too you.

[Bio Rabbit]

thtguy::

Hey thanks for the feedback. So what are you selling your VW rabbit for? It is already converted, I am not sure what you mean by DIY, Do it yourself..but in what way.

And do you know how i would find out what the 1981 VW rabbit pickup is really worth. THe KBB on line only goes back to 1985. I am not sure where else to look. Maybe you can help me.
Thanks!
E

[mm0015]

I am quoting myself from a different thread on here, as it seems relevant to this post as well.

Don't rule out the newer Ford PSD 7.3's either. The were used up to 2002, and they switched to the 6.0 after that. Stay away from the 6.0 for veggie use for now, they have been some converted, but still pretty experimental. The later 7.3's have pr oven themselves pretty well. I am running an 02 on WVO, and there are many over at the dieselstop.com that have lots of miles on veggy. Here are some examples from a recent thread: a 2000 that has 20K of veggy, 35K on a late 99, 25K on a 97, 38K on a 96. All of these are still running great. Also a vendor from thedieselstop (specializes in high performance PSD injectors) is currently doing a free analysis on the injectors from 3 of the high mileage WVO conversions to see if he can find any abnormal wear.

[ElktonJohn]

Sorry to re-new this thread but to Abonn488, and others, might be usefull.