Idea for fastest VO warm up...

[Donniej]

My daily commute is 13 miles through Philadelphia, this doesn't leave much time to run VO. I've made it a mission to find out the fastest way to be able to switch...

Here's my current idea:
Custom tank in the trunk (~15 gallon) with 'large' diameter hoses and an electric pump moving non-heated VO to a 1 to 2 gallon insulated container under the hood that's heated via a (FRYHE050) heat exchanger. The VO would enter near the top of the cylindrical container, pass through the heat exchanger and exit at the bottom... it would then pass through a heated filter assembly (234032RL-01) before going to the IP. I'm also thinking about running metal VO lines from the main tank to the engine compartment along the exhaust system to pre-heat it before it reaches the under-hood tank...

This way I only need to get a smaller amount of VO up to temp before my commute. I don't know the rate at which the VO cycles back to the tank through the return line so that may be a fundemental flaw in this plan...

[akghound]

Greetings ... Things have warmed up here and now I can run with the vegi-therm off after everything gets heated up. Except for in the extreme cold this system works well for me. It is on a 96 Dodge truck with a Cummins. All my lines are HOH wrapped in insulation. My tank is a poly tank, with a copper heat exchanger, placed in the bed of the truck, which is out in the weather. I have heater hose wrapped around the filter, a homemade copper heat exchanger under the hood, and a vegi-therm (the big one) just ahead of the valve to the IP. Both the diesel and VO circuits are looped; I can circulate the VO through its own loop while motoring on diesel. Now here is how this works; after starting the truck and while it is still warming up, I circulate the VO through its own loop and back to the VO tank in the bed of the truck. Inside this tank the ends of both the pickup and return lines are tied inside a soup can which is placed inside of a 5-micron bag filter. This soup can and bag filter is nestled between the legs of the copper heat exchanger near the bottom of the VO tank. When I purge I leave diesel in all the lines and a “puddle” of diesel in the can and bag filter. When I start the VO circulating for the initial heat up all I pump is the leftover diesel from the purge cycle. This way I can begin to heat the VO with the vegi-therm while the engine and heater lines are heating up. The VO can be nearly solid in the tank but quickly thaws as the heated diesel (left over from the purge cycle) begins to work on it. Most of the time I have the VO hot enough to use (above 150*) before the engine is up to temp. I hope this is not too confusing. ... Ken

[cgoodwin]

I have never used the FRYHE5050 in this application - as a tank heater. It is designed to impart heat to the fuel passing through the center and soes this quite well. By the time the engine is at temp the HE is producing satisfactory temps. Remember your fuel must only be warm enough to flow to the HE for things to work.

The real issue is getting the engine to temp quickly. If the Vo in the tank is margerine, it will need to be heated. You can put a heat exchanger in the tank or an electric heater which will be plugged in at night and at your work - up to you. If you run HOH lines to the exchanger in the tank you have heated lines as well.

I have avoided exaust heated lines for several reasons: You can not regulate the heat. Exhaust systems move and fatigue as would the lines. If the metal lines get to exhaust temp then they will melt the flex lines they are attached to.

Metal fuel lines: Steel = acidic VO will rust them and if the lines flex they will stress fracture. Copper= used for a long time with no known issues, some go on about the green patina but I have yet to see any evidence of problems. Aluminum = No known issues.

We recently did a HIH setup with 3/4 heater hose and 3/8 copper line running inside, nicknamed "Gumby Line" we were able to form it like a Gumby, bend it and it stayed where you put it, once in place it was attached to the frame rails with insulated P clamps and the whole thing insulated with pipe insulation.

Many other options exist, you can use an electric pump to circulate water from the engine through lines back to the tank and get things warmer faster, etc. I have an unheated tank with a heated Davco right next to it, the oil in the tank is OK since winters here are not severe, it enters the Davco and is heated well enough to flow well through 3/8 lines to the engine compartment where the FRYHE5050 does the temp boosting right before the IP.

As far as getting up to temp faster, this depends on the vehicle - what is it??

Chris


My daily commute is 13 miles through Philadelphia, this doesn't leave much time to run VO. I've made it a mission to find out the fastest way to be able to switch...

Here's my current idea:
Custom tank in the trunk (~15 gallon) with 'large' diameter hoses and an electric pump moving non-heated VO to a 1 to 2 gallon insulated container under the hood that's heated via a (FRYHE050) heat exchanger. The VO would enter near the top of the cylindrical container, pass through the heat exchanger and exit at the bottom... it would then pass through a heated filter assembly (234032RL-01) before going to the IP. I'm also thinking about running metal VO lines from the main tank to the engine compartment along the exhaust system to pre-heat it before it reaches the under-hood tank...

This way I only need to get a smaller amount of VO up to temp before my commute. I don't know the rate at which the VO cycles back to the tank through the return line so that may be a fundemental flaw in this plan...

[Donniej]

The car is a 85 BMW 524td... the red-headed step-child of the diesel community :D

[cgoodwin]

Great engine. I am doing a Mercedes G wagon with the same motor in it.

1) Install the 80C thermostat # 11 53 1 466 173
2) Be sure the engine is in good tune, a rich mixture will burn cold.
3) Remove the belt driven fan and install an electric thermostatically controlled fan (Hayden) so that the cold air is only bening blown when the engine is hot.
4) In the wnter block most of the radiator with something, waxed cardboard, lenolium, etc. to prevent cold air from entering the engine compartment.
5) Install a block heater.

How is that for a start.

Chris

[Donniej]

The stock mechanical fan is on a thermostatic clutch (as opposed to old fashioned solid mount fans like on my 1940 Dodge). Is it really necessary to replace them? I didn't think that a clutch fan moved that much air at low temps... but I have been wrong before :)

I can use a block heater while at home but work is street-parking so no 110V there...

I completely agree on the rest. Thanks again Chris!

[cgoodwin]

The fan os on a viscous fan clutch and it does move air before the engine is up to temp, start the motor and hold your hand near the engine - safety disclaimer, do not put any body part in the fan. Replacing it is not required but you did ask how to get up to temp faster, try blocking the rad first. If you warm the oil well and have the tank insulated it should still be kind of warm at the end of the day, the engine will be cold though.

Chris

[drboost]

This thread is of great interest to me as I have a 13 mile commute to work in a 93 Dodge. I only have the factory guages so I don't know my actual temp, but in the cold we are experiencing now (1 F at startup) my motor never gets to the 1/2 way point. My understanding is a diesel truck won't heat up much in cold weather unless "worked".

[dana linscott]

I live where it DOES get cold..Central MN. I grew up further north.
We routinely use what are called "winter fronts" on diesel vehicles. This is a "grill bra" which prevents air from being pushed through the radiator and engine bay at road speeds. Since it does not completely block the radiator (it covers the front of the grill) the engine cannot overheat at idle. The fan can still pull sufficent air through the radiator when sitting still. But the air under the hood does get much warmer so the "air charge" being pulled into the cylinder is not cold air and this makes a huge difference in how warm the engine gets at idle. And since at road speeds the air is mostly diverted around the grill the coolant in the radiator tends to stay warmer...as does the air under the hood being drawn through the engine.

Just a simple and cheap way of getting a diesel to warm up quickly and run at a more efficient temp in cold weather. I put my winter front on my F250 when the temps reach 40°F in the fall...have not needed one for the MBZ 1902.5 turbo for some reason though.