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  #1  
Old 05-13-2005, 05:39 AM
brownforddiesel brownforddiesel is offline
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Default Types of oils

This has probably been discused earlier but......

I am a little confused about different oils. There are hydrogenated oils, partially hydrogenated oils, vegetable oil which is actually soybean based(?), canola (what is a canola?), corn, olive, shorting, ect, ect..

I called around to a couple of restaurants here in town and asked them what they used. One said they used "clear stuff like you buy at Wal-mart", the other said they use a soy-based oil, I asked them if was creamy in color and they said yes. I look at new soybean oil and it was clear not creamy. Do they know what they use?

I know the best way to get the oil you want to go look at what they throw away. But How can I know for sure what I am getting? I have several barrels of oil already and all but one set up every night. The other must be corn or something because it is amber and didnt gell until it was below 30 degrees in the freezer. I am sure the ones that set up are hydrogenated oil, am I right? They produce an amber collored oil on the top but you can see the white sediment layered one to two inched below the top.

If anybody has any imput I would like to know. What are they using, are there different filtering techniques for different oils, filter cold or hot, ect..ect..

Thanks
James
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Old 05-13-2005, 06:27 AM
dana linscott dana linscott is offline
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Welcome to the sometimes confusing world of waste vegetable oil fuel.

Nearly all virgin VegOil is amber and clear. Hydrogenated or partially Hydrogenated VegOil will appear creamy or even pudding like at times. And fats from meats cooked in the oil can also create a creamy or pudding like consistency WVO.

Some VegOil conversion kits refer to anything other than clear non hydrogenated VegOil as"low quality"oil. This is more of a reflection on the efficiency of their kit designs than on the usefulness of the WVO itself since these designs only work well when"high quality"WVO is used in them. A more modern, efficient, well designed conversion is able to use"low quality"WVO as easily as"high quality"WVO.

Canola is actually a version of rapeseed oil developed in Canada.
Soybean oil is probably the most common VegOil in North America and can be found in non hydrogenated, partially hydrogenated, and hydrogenated forms.

Besides requiring one of the more efficient conversion configurations/designs hydrogenated, partially hydrogenated, and WVO with high fat/tallow levels require"hot filtering"techniques. As the competition for"high quality"WVO increases more and more individuals with converted diesels will be forced to upgrade their conversions in order to use the WVO which remains available.

Last edited by dana linscott; 05-13-2005 at 07:30 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2005, 03:44 PM
brownforddiesel brownforddiesel is offline
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So the white creamy type oils should be hot filtered? That is what I have been doing with it. I read that hot filtering the oil will allow smaller particules to actually dissolve with the heat and will pass though even a 5 microm filter. Is this true?

If an oil is higher quality then it should be able to be filtered cold?


James
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2005, 03:55 PM
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I really think it boils down to how you want to handle the oil. Chris has even shown a darn good argument for hydrogenated oils for diesels.

Like Dana suggested: How you plan on filtering (or handling) the oil may be the key in whether you want to deal with hydrogenated. I can't imagine pumping hydrogenated oil from a cold outside drum in the dead of winter. However I use pails. I don't use a pump. In fact I don't use a pump in any of my setup at all... I also don't plan on heating my oil. So in the winter I might want to avoid hydrogenated because it simply won't flow through my gravity filters... or maybe it will... It's a wait and see proposition.

When I approached a supplier, I asked to see the containers the oil comes in. It seems most places use a blended oil. Some places don't use hydrogenated oil, some do. I have enough (potential) suppliers around that I can avoid hydrogenated oil and have one less thing to worry about in the winter - but if push came to shove I wouldn't really have a problem with using it.

Bill
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:34 PM
brownforddiesel brownforddiesel is offline
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Chris what was the good arguement that you made for the use of hydrogenated oils?

Today I got two cubies of Mel-Fry oil. The box said it was Fractionated Soybean oil. What on Earth does that mean?

What about the question of whether or not heating the oil dissolves some of the larger particals and allowing them to pass through the prefilter?

James
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Old 05-14-2005, 09:10 PM
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Default Mel-FRY

I have filtered and run a few hunderd gallons of Mel-Fry. Last winter that was my primary oil, it worked OK. I had to heat it in order to filter it, then warm it up again to get it into the tank on the truck. Once there It recieved a lot more heat, Heated Tank, Heated Oil Pickup, Heated Filter, HOH lines, Coolant Heat Exchanger and VegTherm. During the extreme cold I had to completely backflush the VO system with diesel so it wouldn't set up. All this being said, Mel-Fry got me through the winter. I thought that was it was suppose to be. Then I got cut off from my Mel-Fry scource and had to hunt down some other oil. Now I know that there is quite a differance in oils. Mel-Fry works but there is better stuff out there. Good Luck .... Ken
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2005, 12:45 AM
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cgoodwin cgoodwin is offline
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Partially hydrogenated oil is less likely to polymerize and I am told has higher calorific value (more stored energy), etc. The only arguement for not using it is that it gells at a higher temp. That said I used it all winter, a lot depends on the efficiency of your system, if you have enough heat transfer, you can use it without a problem. I heat it for 6 to 8 hours and let it cool, this drops the majority of particulate matter and water out, then I heat it enough to flow easily through the filter and filter it. Search the forum with the word "Filler" and you will find a design I posted for a filter system.

I now have several filtered, heated barrels in restauraunts and have several others who deliver it to me or who call me to come get thier oil. Since it is not outdoors ther is rarely any way for water to get in to the oil, it is in a fryer at 450F so no water can be in the oil, cooled to about 140F when they drain it from the fryer and pour it into the barrel I give them or back into the containers it came from. I simply need to filter this oil. I get oil from one sushi place so clean I could just pour it in my tank and let the vehicles filter do the work.

it all depends on the system you have and the climate you are in. I have not had a problem with partially hydro oil, but then again I am now taking steps to make it possible to reduce the heat in my system (thermostatic fuel control and the ability to cut coolant flow to the entire VO system in the event you want to use it for diesel or have only a very small diesel tank) where most commercial systems do not produce enough heat at the best of times.
chris
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2005, 10:30 AM
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msutdi msutdi is offline
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Question What qualities are "good" for VO fuel

When sourcing oil, should you generally go for high or low smoke points?

I know that gel or cloud points are important, since we have to heat our oil for use, but what about the high end? It is my understanding that the smoke point is bascially where the oil begins to break down and polymerize, which is bad in terms of my engine.

Does anyone have any more detailed info?

Once the generalities are understood, I found a listing of smoke points for various oils used in cooking. The list is on a site that caters to people who think linearly (but in parallel) and respond well to graphical representations:
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=50

For those who have looked at the list, which end of the spectrum are you going for, peanut/avocado at the high end or unrefined canola at the low end?
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:03 PM
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barryn barryn is offline
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I was searching for "Mel-Oil" here and found this thread. It may be that Mel-Oil is my primary oil for a while and I'm unsure if I should be concerned or not. The location that had supplied me with some nice Soy and Cottonseed oil in the past may cut me off. I saw Ken's post, but figured running it in San Antonio would be a much different animal (especially in the summer). I was thinking that fractionated = hydrogenated. After doing a search and finding this I'm thinking otherwise. This recent post has me concerned about the citric acid in Mel-OIl as well.

After reading Ken's post the thought occur to me to run it when it's warm while saving up other oils and then run those in the cooler times. (The cooler times being a few days in January).
Maybe it would be better to mix in other oils so that Mel-Oil makes up half or so of my total.
Is Mel-Oil good, bad, or just different?
Should the fact that I'm using upflow filtration have any impact?


Thanks
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  #10  
Old 06-30-2008, 02:46 PM
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barryn barryn is offline
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Many views, but no comments.

It's been my experience here that if someone is about to do something colossally stupid there is generally no shortage of souls who will tell him such. I'll assume the best, that using Mel-Oil is like eating fast food. It's OK in moderation.
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